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For Discussion

Gen Y Guy, commenting on a different thread, has this to say. I think it’s worth discussing on its own thread.

For those of you who know me in real life, this will not come as a surprise, but I have no designs on ever getting married. Now, it appears I am not alone in my disposition.

“Why Men Won’t Commit: Exploring Young Men’s Attitudes About Sex, Dating and Marriage,” a study released by researchers Barbara Dafoe Whitehead and David Popenoe of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University, concludes that men are, indeed, more apprehensive about getting married than before.

“The median age of first marriage for men has reached 27, the oldest age in our nation’s history,” Mr. Popenoe remarked in the Washington Times. “If this trend of men waiting to marry continues, it is likely to clash with the timing of marriage and childbearing for the many young women who hope to marry and bear children before they begin to face problems associated with declining fertility,” he continued. You know this is a collegiate study when an examination of a trend that is affecting men is used to fret about the state of women.

The study contains several possible explanations for this phenomenon, based on interviews with 60 single men, 25 to 33, who live in four parts of the country. While that level of measurement certainly is not statistically significant enough to reflect any kind of a national trend, responses generally revolved around the possibilities of suffering huge losses if the marriage ends in divorce. (”An ex-wife will take you for all you’ve got” and “men have more to lose financially than women” were common
refrains, the study reports.)

To humor the study’s results for a few minutes, let’s examine whether or not these young men’s concerns are justified. If we accept the old feminist argument that marriage is slavery for women, then it is undeniable that — given the current state of the nation’s family courts — divorce is slavery for men.

Take a hypothetical husband who marries and has two children. There is a 50 percent likelihood that this marriage will end in divorce within eight years, and if it does, the odds are 2-1 it will be the wife who initiates the divorce. It may not matter that the man was a decent husband. The reality of the situation is that few divorces are initiated over abuse or because the man has already abandoned the family. Nor is adultery cited as a factor by divorcing women appreciably more than by divorcing men.

The new trend that has taken hold of the court system is what as known as the “no fault” divorce, in which the filing party needs only to cite their general discontent with the marriage in order to be granted a hearing. Women initiate these unilateral divorces-on-demand 3 times as often as men.

While the courts may grant the former spouses joint legal custody, the odds are nearly 40 to 1 of the wife winning physical custody. Overnight, the husband, accustomed to seeing his kids every day and being an integral part of their lives, will now be lucky if he is allowed to see them even one day out of the week.

Once the couple is divorced, odds are at least even that the wife will interfere with the husband’s visitation rights. Three-quarters of divorced men surveyed say their ex-wives have interfered with their visitation, and 40 percent of mothers studied admitted that they had done so, and that they had generally acted out of spite or in order to punish their exes.

Then, of course, there is the issue of financial losses due to court-imposed payments. In the end (99 times out of 100), the wife will keep most of the couple’s assets and –if they jointly own one — the house. The husband will need to set up a new residence and pay at least a third of his take-home pay to his ex in child support, on top of whatever alimony payments the courts impose upon him. These can run as high as another third of his income. (Add the cost of taxes to that and the man gets to keep exactly 13% of his take-home pay — he’d better pray that’s enough to keep him alive.)

But as bad as all of this is, it would still make our hypothetical man one of the lucky ones. After all, he could be one of those fathers who cannot see his children at all because his ex has made a false accusation of domestic violence, child abuse, or child molestation. Or a father who can only see his own children under supervised visitation or in nightmarish visitation centers where dads are treated like criminals.

He could be one of those fathers whose ex has moved their children hundreds or thousands of miles away, in violation of court orders, which courts often do not enforce. He could be one of those fathers who tears up his life and career again and again in order to follow his children, only to have his ex-wife continually move them.

He could be one of the fathers who has lost his job, seen his income drop, or suffered a disabling injury, only to have child support arrearages and interest pile up to create a mountain of debt which he could never hope to pay off. Or a father who is forced to pay 70 percent or 80 percent of his income in child support because the court has imputed an unrealistic income to him. Or a dad who suffers from one of the child support enforcement system’s endless and difficult to correct errors, or who is jailed because he cannot keep up with his payments. Or a dad who reaches old age impoverished because he lost everything he had in a divorce when he was middle-aged and did not have the time and the opportunity to earn it back. Our imaginary man might consider himself lucky if he knew what his life could have been.

Over five million divorced men in America are currently experiencing the situation I just outlined. Without a doubt, their stories and experiences are heard by unmarried men. Can anyone truly blame the men for having apprehension? They stand to gain little and lose everything they’ve worked for in their entire lives should they “take the plunge”, so to speak.

So ladies, if you have a problem with this, speak to your feminist brethren. This is the legacy which they have left behind. By erasing the stigma of premarital sex and encouraging physical liberation, they have eliminated one of the most powerful incentives in history for men to tie the knot. By advocating government as a surrogate husband in the case of single motherhood, they have eliminated the disincentive for women to file for divorce. And through decades of litigious activism, they have given rise to the bloated and intrusive family court system and stacked it so egregiously against the men of this country that it now appears they are subconsciously engaging in what could be called a “marriage strike”, preferring to play the odds rather than assume a massively disproportionate amount of risk.

As for the men, make no mistake, they are slowly beginning to realize that the power is now in their favor. They have more and more perfectly legitimate reasons for remaining unmarried every day. Given a choice between not marrying one’s lady friend — assuming no risk whatsoever and still having the historical benefits of marriage (sex, companionship, etc.) available to them, or marrying the woman and having a 50-50 chance of their lives being utterly destroyed should the woman so much as be “unhappy” with the marriage, the decision is a no-brainer. What women perceive as a “fear of commitment” is really nothing more than a pragmatic assessment of the odds facing men in the prospect of a marriage.

Therefore, the trends evident in this study are not much of a surprise. I would wager that if the study were conducted nationally, similar results would be produced. Of course, such a study would invariably seek to address the grievances of the dejected single women of the country. My advice to them would be simple: offer to sign a prenuptial agreement that outlines the exact terms of a possible divorce: how assets would be divided, how any alimony and child support would be handled, and other vital elements that may be causing apprehension. And don’t be insulted if your potential mate asks you to sign one, or if he desires terms that will be equitable to him. No matter how strong your love may be for one another, the demand for eligible bachelors willing to commit to marriage is currently exceeding the supply, and if you won’t sign it, odds are that there’s another woman out there who will.

NOTE: Statistics in this article (and, in effect, much of its text) are drawn from Glenn Sacks and Diana Thompson’s Philadelphia Inquirer op-ed of 7/5/2002 entitled: “A Marriage Strike Emerges as Men Decide Not to Risk Loss”

What do you guys and gals think?

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  1. FutureMrsLarijani
    August 16th, 2009 at 12:33 | #1

    My experience with divorce defies the statistics, kind of. My mother in no way intervened with visitation. She received child support, but no alimony. I don’t know how much child support she received. All I know is there wasn’t enough money for me to go to college. At the last minute (right around graduating from high school), I was asked how I was going to come up with the money for my college education.

    My father was so glad to be done with paying child support that he disappeared for 2 years after I was 18. To this day, he thinks all I want from him is money (even though I wasn’t the one collecting child support nor did I ever take him to court for falling behind). I can’t even be concerned about him these days without him thinking that I’m asking for money for the wedding.

    So, asking me if I think women are to blame for the current state of the institution marriage I will go off. Women are imperfect creatures, no doubt, but men are not innocent victims.

  2. August 16th, 2009 at 12:49 | #2

    @FutureMrsLarijani
    I also have my own cynicism about the “study” involved. While I will not deny that the risks for divorce have gone up due to no-fault divorce, and while I will not deny the reality of the potential impact of divorce on a man–both personal and professional–I would also say that the quantitative case is way overstated.

    For one thing, the 50% figure being bandied about regarding divorce, is popular hype, and frankly untrue, as Dr. Kallman Heller points out.

    A false conclusion in the 1970s that half of all first marriages ended in divorce was based on the simple but completely wrong analysis of the marriage and divorce rates per 1000 people in the U.S. A similar abuse of statistical analysis led to the conclusion that 60% of all second marriages ended in divorce. These errors have had a profound impact on attitudes about marriage in our society and it is a terrible injustice that there wasn’t more of an effort to get accurate data (essentially only obtainable by following a significant number of couples over time and measure the outcomes) or that newer, more accurate and optimistic data isn’t being heavily reported in the media.

    It is now clear that the divorce rate in first marriages probably peaked at about 40% for first marriages around 1980 and has been declining since to about 30% in the early 2000s. This is a dramatic difference. Rather than view marriage as a 50-50 shot in the dark it can be viewed as a having 70% likelihood of succeeding. But even to use that kind of generalization, i.e., one simple statistic for all marriages, grossly distorts what is actually going on.

    Within the Church, there are other factors to consider. Families that attend regularly have divorce rates well below the national average. If they are equally yoked at the beginning, have undergone a regimen of premarital counseling, attend church regularly, and pray together, then their divorce rates fall like an unlucky paratrooper.

    What IS worth discussing is the impact of divorce on the men, especially with respect to their children. The fact that (a) the women are overwhelmingly more likely to get custody and (b) the women are very likely to interfere with the father’s visitation, are not small issues.

    Rectifying these will take more than some minor tweaks.

  3. FutureMrsLarijani
    August 16th, 2009 at 12:56 | #3

    StealthyCat :
    @FutureMrsLarijani
    I also have my own cynicism

    Shocking . .

  4. August 16th, 2009 at 12:59 | #4
  5. FutureMrsLarijani
    August 16th, 2009 at 13:04 | #5

    I love you too :)

  6. Anakin Niceguy
    August 16th, 2009 at 17:45 | #6

    “fall like an unlucky paratrooper.”

    ROTFL at that expressoin.

  7. August 16th, 2009 at 19:30 | #7

    My first thought was, OH COME ON! Why in the world would we expect to marry a man the exact same age as ourselves. Who started that BS? I’m reading an old Jane Austin and the heroine was 17 being courted by a man of 4 or 5 and 20. Go figure.

  8. August 16th, 2009 at 19:31 | #8

    FOr those who don’t know, Jane Austen wrote 200 years ago in Britain.

  9. August 16th, 2009 at 20:15 | #9

    Even at 30-40% I believe the risk of divorce is important to consider and be prudent about. Carrie, I also think that saying that a man is not comfortable with the risks associated with getting married does not necessarily mean that women are entirely to blame for the current state of marriage and divorce. We all know women who have gotten the short end of the marriage and divorce stick, and when that is someone close to us “going off” is a natural reaction. I think that is why it is important to base our beliefs about the current state of marriage on a more global picture rather than the experiences of those around us (and that goes both ways).

    I think the 50% divorce rate issue is also influenced by the fact that divorces of people who were previously married and divorced are also included. The same people getting married and divorced multiple times inflate the number. The census bureau bases their data on a comparison the number of marriages that take place in a year versus the number of divorces that take place. It does not mean half of all marriages end in divorce which it is commonly believed it does.

    I was trying to find the study mentioned because it really sounds like a qualitative or descriptive study rather than a study from which generalizations should be made (“interviews” and 60 participants are kind of dead give aways for that methodology). When I googled the title of the study a blog post came up at the blog “Don’t Marry” on 1/31/08 that is word for word what Gen y guy wrote in his comment here. Perhaps he is the author of the blog in question (which I hope is the case) and is not plagiarizing someone else’s intellectual property. And, yes, I will 100% admit to being influenced by my profession in my concern about the issue, so many people may think it is an over reaction.

    I still can’t find the study.

  10. August 17th, 2009 at 02:55 | #10

    Cohabitation that lasts for years is also disadvantageous since there is still the legal notion of being a “commonlaw” wife. The requirements vary in terms of how many years it takes to be de facto married.

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