“I’ll man up after she womans up”, and other childish arguments.

When it comes to advancing the dynamics of male-female interaction–i.e. Game–Roissy has few equals. Say what you want about his crude, crass secularism, he gets it about how women think, even as he uses that for his own base advantages.

Like Vox Day, I accept that Game is no respecter of religious or personal motivations: for folks like Roissy, Game is a means to get an endless stream of sexual partners. For the Christian who desires to marry well, an understanding of Game allows one to navigate through the dynamics of her tests and off-the-wall questions, in your quest to get her to marry you.

At the same time, one must always consider the source of information. With Vox, you’ll get an explication of Game from the perspective of a Christian. With Roissy, OTOH, you will get a lot of secularized angst about women. Vox is a Christian whereas Roissy is an Atheist.

This leads me to an argument that Roissy made on his blog.

First, some disclosures:

(1) We realize that all single mothers are not in that position due to immorality. Some are widowed, some are divorced due to exigent circumstances, and some are wives who were abandoned by their husbands.

Those, however, do not begin to account for the larger deluge in unwed childbirths. That is a serious problem, and it is a sign that, as a society, we are on the fast track to decline.

(2) Conception requires two people. Unless you are the small percentage who got pregnant from rape, sex is a very consensual matter. That goes for her; that goes for him.

Before I take Roissy to the woodshed, I agree with him in the following respects:

(a) While The New York Times is giving great attention to the men who are nowhere to be found with these children they helped bring into the world, NO ATTENTION IS GIVEN TO THE FACT THAT THESE WOMEN WERE HALF OF THE PROBLEM.

When you take ANY course of action, you are responsible for the outcomes of your decision. That is on the men who slept with these women; that is also on the women who chose to risk single motherhood by sleeping with these men.

No one “led these women down the path to promiscuity”, these men and women VOLUNTARILY chose it. Sex takes effort and thought. Trying to rationalize after the fact that “it just happened” is a total lie.

(b) He’s absolutely correct about government’s role in this problem: you DO get what you pay for. If you subsidize unwed motherhood, then you’ll get more of it. The last 50 years have proven that assessment correct, in spades.

With that, I shall now take Roissy to the woodshed…

(1) The maxim “you get what you pay for” applies to everyone involved. Whereas Roissy lambastes the appearances of these women, let it also be known that the men involved CHOSE to sleep with them. It matters not what Roissy or myself think of those women: the men who slept with them felt otherwise.

(2) The call to “man up” in this case is no respecter of what you think of the woman you slept with.

If you slept with her and got her pregnant, it matters not that you think she is a slut: you should have thought about that before you slept with her.

It matters not that you think she is ugly and not the kind of person you want to spend the rest of your life with: you should have thought about that before you slept with her.

What you think of her is irrelevant: you are now responsible for giving that child a father.

Roissy is a finance guy, so he knows about risk and return. High return means high risk, and unmarried sex is a very high-risk endeavor.

And as with finances, so it is with unmarried sex: if you take a big risk, you may not always get the return you were counting on. She may use The Pill, but that is not foolproof. And while 1 in 3 women of childbearing age will have one or more abortions, the other 2 of 3 women won’t be so high on the idea of killing their babies to get you off the hook.

Still, just as with finances, the time to consider the risk is BEFORE you take it. Once you make the decision, you own it.

And once there is a child involved, you are tied to her for the rest of your life, whether you wanted it or not.

Now, to the ladies, this part is for you…

(1) Just as with the men, unmarried sex is a high-risk endeavor. Aside from the fact that you are at higher risk for STDs than he is–due to anatomy and physiology–you will also, due to anatomy and physiology, bear the brunt if you get pregnant.

(a) That he is required by law to support a child if you get pregnant, does not guarantee that the state will be successful in compelling him to pay up. Nor is there any guarantee that he will be consistent in keeping his obligations.

(b) Abortion may look like a “Get Out of Jail Free” card, but–if you have any smidgeon of a conscience, you will carry that burden for the rest of your life. Don’t kid yourself into believing otherwise: I’ve seen women attempt post-abortion suicide. I’ve seen women go through years of treatment for bipolar disorder, including shock therapy, whose problems began when they had abortions.

(c) If you get pregnant, the more honorable way out–a shotgun wedding–still has risks all its own.

(d) As family law becomes better-developed, it is also more possible that he may be able to get full custody, and YOU WILL BE FORCED TO PAY CHILD SUPPORT. Don’t kid yourself on this one, ladies: I’ve seen it happen, and there is a credible and strong logical case for it.

Ultimately, there really is no such thing as “no strings attached” sex.

Sooner or later, you will get your reckoning for it. I cannot tell you how that will play out for you, but I’m old enough to know that it does eventually play out.

3 thoughts on ““I’ll man up after she womans up”, and other childish arguments.

  1. “As family law becomes better-developed”

    family law is BIG business; HUGE. and it’s only going to get bigger and bigger. the number of people and industries that have a tentacle in the gold pot of family law is astounding and growing by the day. get caught in a situation where you are feeding this beast, and you will not like its appetite, or the way it feeds. it will not matter if you are innocent or the better party; it will not be pretty.

    ***

    “Ultimately, there really is no such thing as “no strings attached” sex.

    Sooner or later, you will get your reckoning for it. I cannot tell you how that will play out for you, but I’m old enough to know that it does eventually play out.”

    yep; me, too. and it’s not pretty at all. and if you think it’s just about you, you have been fooled. your choices will always affect many more than just you.

  2. (a) That he is required by law to support a child if you get pregnant, does not guarantee that the state will be successful in compelling him to pay up. Nor is there any guarantee that he will be consistent in keeping his obligations.

    In part a lot of this may be due to the person she chose to sleep with being broke – that’s really what many “deadbeat dads” seems to be. This may be another casualty of the welfare state – women not caring as much about the ability of those men they do sleep with to be providers. And the state has some pretty strange ways of addressing child support that really only seem to exacerbate the problem in many cases.

    (Stephen Baskerville’s book is an interesting read (although not without its flaws).

  3. @Dave
    No kidding. Like putting a deadbeat in prison; that helps REAL well: nothing like impacting his marginal ability to pay up by taking away his ability to pay up, and–due to giving him a criminal record–further impeding his future ability to pay up.

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