“Ah, wives & biblical submission. Why must bloggers leave out the words that follow re: the husband’s role?”
To answer the question: they shouldn’t.
That said, here is what I have observed:
(1) Headship Theology proponents tend to overstretch the husband’s responsibilities, to the point of always blaming the wife’s failure to submit on his failure to love. The end-result: everything is always the husband’s fault.
This sets both parties up for failure: the husband is in a lose-lose situation, and nothing is ever really his wife’s fault. It also presents a jaded view of the Gospel as it pedestals women and thus minimizes human depravity.
(2) While I’ve never seen anyone–conservative or otherwise–attempt to water down the husband’s command to love his wife as Christ loved the Church, I have, OTOH, seen no small number of attempts by pastors, even conservative ones, to water down the command to wives to submit to their husbands as to the Lord.
So I guess my question is why must pastors and bloggers water down the wife’s responsibilities?
Why must pastors and bloggers water down the wife’s responsibilities?
To keep their wives happy 🙂
@David
Yep. Not to mention the women who often dominate the key committees (Finance, Personnel) and whose husbands are Deacons/Elders.
And don’t get me wrong: I’m not knocking Possum here. All I’m saying is that the misrepresentations are not just a matter of ignoring the husband’s responsibilities. Sadly, there are a fair number of pastors (and bloggers) who do that.
At the same time, what we need here is equity and intellectual honesty in addressing the passage, as well as the abuses of it.
It’s wrong when we give men a pass on their responsibilities; it’s wrong when we minimize women’s responsibilities.
Also, when dealing with the issue, the treatment often depends on the audience at hand.
This past weekend, I was at the Act Like Men conference, put on by Veritas Community Church in Columbus, OH. This was a very good conference, and they provided good substance.
When dealing with Ephesians 5, it’s not like they spent much time on the commands to the wives. Why not? The audience was–except for some of the women who were volunteering in service capacities–overwhelmingly men.
At the same time, there was a person who tweeted a question to the effect of, “What do I do when my wife isn’t submitting to me, and otherwise shows no respect to me.”
In a nutshell, this is what they said:
(1) The first thing a man needs to check–always–is how he is loving his wife. This is because, (a) irrespective of how she is responding to him, his responsibilities are still what they are; and (b) it is a good practice to check one’s self before making an accusation.
(2) If she’s not a believer, the husband is over a barrel here. But he still is obligated to love her as Christ loved the Church. This is because his responsibilities are not contingent on her meeting hers.
(3) If she’s a believer, then–after attempts to address this in good faith have failed–it could be a church discipline issue.
I thought that was quite ballsy of these guys to raise the Church discipline angle.
Keep in mind that we are talking about folks who are not predisposed to “keeping women in their place”; far from it. At the same time, they were being candid and intellectually honest with Scripture.
“At the same time, there was a person who tweeted a question to the effect of, “What do I do when my wife isn’t submitting to me, and otherwise shows no respect to me.”
For extremely concrete advice I’d send them to MarriedManSexLife.com. I thought you were on each other’s blogrolls but I guess not. Disclaimer, he’s not a Christian and I don’t always agree with his worldview. But I think he’s a keen observer of male/female interactions and a wife that doesn’t respect or submit to her husband (the two are intertwined) is one of his bread-and-butter issues.
@Phantom
Athol Kay is probably–after Vox Day–the most Christian-friendly blogger in the Gamezone. Yep, he’s definitely coming from a secular perspective, but, honestly, most of the Game bloggers do. Vox is the only Christian among them that I’m aware of.
Still, Susan Walsh and Athol Kay–and even Roissy and Roosh–“get it” in ways that evade many evangelicals. This is because they REALLY understand how women live out their depravity. This is why they don’t pedestal women.
That’s the problem with evangelical leaders: they have a tendency to “pedestal” the people they like. There are otherwise sweet ladies who serve on key committees in many such churches. The pastors often get sucked in by their sweet dispositions, and–in the process–forget that those sweet ladies are every bit as depraved as the men.
They do this with younger gals, too. Those young, passionate gals who are always so involved with the Church? They often get treated as if they can do no wrong. Then, when one of them “falls into sin”, everyone acts all surprised. If she marries a bad guy, everyone feels sorry for her. When the marriage blows up, “she had grounds for divorce”, so they give her a pass on the issues–of her own character–that led to the disastrous cycle.
I would submit that such pedestaling is itself misogyny, as it detracts from the humanity of women and moves them farther away from being in a position to receive sanctification.