While I gave up pedestaling long ago, I still found this tidbit unpleasantly surprising.
Gentlemen….if she starts talking about taking a trip to the Caribbean–without you, of course–let’s just say that it’s a VERY BAD SIGN.
And to the ladies who are into this sort of thing….don’t kid yourselves. If there’s something instructive about this article, it’s that, while you may be getting the attention you crave, the locals over there have special names for you.
Yes, they’ll ravage your body and even take payment for their pleasure. Just remember, though: to them, you’re just an affluent slut. A “milk bottle”.
Over here, though, you are worse than a slut. If you pay for it, then you are as much of a loser as any man who pays for it.
HT: Vox Day.
unfortunately, this does not surprise me – perhaps because i grew up on a toursist beach. i think women have been very successful at masquerading their depraved nature and deviant behaviors over time.
women are born to desire attention, especially the attention of men. little girls dress up and love to be complimented.
we also have this thing hardwired into us to seduce and attract that attention. it is not a bad thing – how we use it can be either good or bad. for example, it is not wrong for me to seduce and attract my husband – it is actually good for me to do so, but it would definitely be wrong for me to use that with other men.
The references to “sources” in this report seems as dubious as many of the claims cited in studies of this sort that generally target men, so I’m not quite sure how much I want to trust their figures. Still likely to be a problem to some extent though.
And, from this article, how’s this for rationalization at work?
I thought that was funny. I mean, goodness, a john who solicits a local prostitute can use the same excuse: “Your honor, I wasn’t soliciting a prostitute. I was engaging in consensual sexual activity, and the money provided was intended to help her in her destitute situation.”*
Ergo, cavorting with prostitutes is an act of charity.
*Note: In spite of my libertarian sensibilities, I am undecided about the decriminalization of prostitution, a cause that libertarians generally support.
The argument tends to be that if we decriminalize it, we would not have so many abuses. But I’m not sure I’m buying it, as that industry has always tended to attract the bottom-feeders and dregs of society.
OTOH, I understand the economic rationale: two people engaging in a consensual transaction that involves service for agreed-upon compensation. I can see the libertarian case: two people acting in autonomy with their own bodies. There is a 4th and 5th Amendment angle there.
At the same time, this would reduce sex to an economic transaction. The societal ramifications would not be good.
Dave – i know some women who went to mexico several years ago, and they went to ‘have fun.’ one was recently divorced (he left her for another woman) … the other was struggling in her marriage to an unfaithful man … and they “deserved” to “have fun.” they hooked up with a couple guys – the divorcee spent the rest of the vacation having sex with this guy she’d just met … and the other declined the invitation to at the last moment. these were two women i knew from church.
i think there are many more women who hook up like this with the unintentionally intentional purpose to do so … meaning it would be against their stated morals and values and visible lifestyle to do so, however, if it happened, then that would be great!
several years later … and the divorcee remarried … the second woman was now divorced … and the divorcee and her new husband let the second woman rendezvous at their house for their sexual escapades so the kids and general friends wouldn’t know … she also had friends with whom she went out of town who allowed her to secretly invite a man to join them so she could have sex w/out others knowing, because “she deserved to have some fun.” btw – these were all regular church attending women.
so i am sure the statistics are very skewed.
Just another day in Baptist life…
they figured if their husband’s could run around on them and cheat on them, and still go to church and still be accepted by the church and still be allowed in leadership roles in the church, then they should have their fun, too. i mean, why should they stay home and be lonely and alone while he’s out living life and having all the sex he wants?
this is why i’ve said out here before … the church knew what my ex was doing … and i was hit on frequently by men during those years … so if i ‘happened’ to fall into an ‘unfortunate relationship’ with one of them, and if he was ‘kind’ to me and ‘treated me right,’ then, well, i deserved it. and the church would have blown over it as though it was okay b/c it wasn’t as bad as what he was doing, and he had put me thru so much hell, and had spent more than my share of lonely nights and endured more than my share of mental and emotional abuse … that it was about time someone was kind and nice to me. add to that my abusive childhood, and i more than deserved to be treated well, even if it broke all the ‘rules.’ after all … they would have said it was his fault b/c he ‘drove’ me to it … and if he hadn’t been out there doing his illicit thing, than i wouldn’t have had need to run around on him. c.r.a.z.y.
women are very forgiving of other women when they want to be, but they will never, ever be forgiving of men in the same situation, especially around other women and with their female friends.
They are committing the same grievous errors that their husbands are committing, and for the same reason: they are focused on their own pleasures. If all that mattered was the existential frame of reference, then those women would be totally justified, as would their husbands.
Ultimately, though, there is a God who is none too thrilled at these shenanigans. And one cannot allow the fact that one’s mate is whoring around to serve as a justification for his or her authority to do the same. This is because it’s not about you.
Sadly, churches will often give a pass to this sort of behavior. In the process, they miss out on a golden opportunity to communicate the truth while providing legitimate Biblical empathy to the offended party.
But didn’t you get the memo? Courtesy of Glenn Stanton of Boundless:
ha!
you know … i always go back to the bible. what does it say? simply teach and preach the bible. there won’t be any favoritism there. and there aren’t any ‘outs,’ either. just b/c your spouse is being or acting like an a$$ and treating you like sh** and getting away with it and still beloved by the church (or who ever is important to you/them), does not give you the right or freedom to ‘have the same kind of *fun*’ too.
again … be very careful the friends you choose. choose friends that will tell you the Truth whether they want to, and whether you want to hear it, or not. do they have to be perfect? absolutely not. neither are you. we’re all depraved sinners. but it’s a matter of the heart.
i think of this often as God brings women into my life. this past year he brought a specific woman into my life for a long-term relationship whose marriage has been struggling. occasionally i see the husband, too, but not often. whenever the opportunity presents itself (not when i force it – who likes anything forced down them?) i share Truth. little tidbits here and there, at the right moment, when she is ready to hear, are critical. i do not know what and when she needs to hear, so i must be very careful to pray and listen to God and let Him direct me. it’s ALL about Him and nothing about me. i just need to be willing. and over the coarse of several months, i see God working in her heart, wooing her unto Him and to her husband. God does the work, we just need to be very careful to be a vessel when He desires and to stay out of the way when He doesn’t … which most often means to keep our mouths shut (not that i’m perfect in any of this, but that God’s grace is bigger than my oops and that my heart desires Truth).
bottom line … are we willing to hear and speak the Truth? are we willing to read the bible and see and hear the Word of Truth thru the printed words? or are we always thinking ‘this applies to someone else, but not me.’
Generally in my view the “girls vacation away from hubbies” is a huge blinking red flag. Of course, if you’ve cheated on your wife, you’ve set yourself up for massive marital failure, including this kind of thing as a retaliation (a fair % of affairs are retaliatory in nature — many people feel entitled to do it “back” to their spouse if it has been done to them). But assuming you haven’t set yourself up like that, I’d be very wary of either spouse having a vacation away with the “girls” or with the “guys” at all, and particularly in places like Mexico, the Caribbean, Vegas and so on. There’s generally one reason spouses have an interest in doing that — basically taking a vacation *from* their spouse — and it isn’t a moral one, generally.
Yep. Any kind of vacation like that–minus the hubby–is a very, very bad sign. When Vox Day suggests that you might as well “get the papers prepared”, there is an element of hard truth behind it.
i would be careful grouping all vacations with ‘the boys’ or with ‘the girls’ as bad. a know a lot of men who go on hunting trips or fishing trips with the guys – more power to ‘em. and i know women who go in groups together to places their husbands don’t care about … such as shopping trips … or to a musical … or stuff that their men just don’t care about, and they’re gone a night or two. i know men who leave the day hunting season opens.
i don’t see anything wrong with these types of vacations. you could even group women’s retreats and men’s retreats in these, too – been on a few women’s retreats myself (not that i’m all that fond of them, in general – a personal like/dislike).
men and women who desire to be unfaithful have proven since the beginning of time they do not need to leave on a vacation to fulfill their desires.
the biggest thing, i think, is the person and their friends. does she have good friends who will hold her accountable? this cannot be assumed to be true simply b/c they are ‘church’ friends. does she make good friends? does he make good friends? are either going to be with a group who has one or two who persuades them to go ‘out on the town’ and ‘have fun’ … especially because they ‘deserve it’
is either neglecting their spouse or family by going on these trips? are they very frequent (do they want to go every week?)
personally, i’m a home-body and would rather be in my own bed at night. but i do have friends who love to go-and-do … a LOT. they go with their spouses, family, friends, groups, kids … they’re just always on the go. nothing wrong with that kind of personality as long as they’re not neglecting their primary relationships – spouse, family, kids, etc.
But when they are talking about going to the Caribbean, or Europe, or Thailand, then it’s bad news.
absolutely
Amos 4
New International Version (NIV)
Israel Has Not Returned to God
4 Hear this word, you cows of Bashan on Mount Samaria,
you women who oppress the poor and crush the needy
and say to your husbands, “Bring us some drinks! ”
2 The Sovereign Lord has sworn by his holiness:
“The time will surely come
when you will be taken away with hooks,
the last of you with fishhooks.[a]
3 You will each go straight out
through breaches in the wall,
and you will be cast out toward Harmon,[b]”
declares the Lord.
4 “Go to Bethel and sin;
go to Gilgal and sin yet more.
Bring your sacrifices every morning,
your tithes every three years.[c]
5 Burn leavened bread as a thank offering
and brag about your freewill offerings —
boast about them, you Israelites,
for this is what you love to do,”
declares the Sovereign Lord.
6 “I gave you empty stomachs in every city
and lack of bread in every town,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.
7 “I also withheld rain from you
when the harvest was still three months away.
I sent rain on one town,
but withheld it from another.
One field had rain;
another had none and dried up.
8 People staggered from town to town for water
but did not get enough to drink,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.
9 “Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
destroying them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.
10 “I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.
11 “I overthrew some of you
as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.
12 “Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel,
and because I will do this to you, Israel,
prepare to meet your God.”
13 He who forms the mountains,
who creates the wind,
and who reveals his thoughts to mankind,
who turns dawn to darkness,
and treads on the heights of the earth —
the Lord God Almighty is his name.
Ame,
I tend to disagree with this,
“i would be careful grouping all vacations with ‘the boys’ or with ‘the girls’ as bad. a know a lot of men who go on hunting trips or fishing trips with the guys – more power to ‘em. and i know women who go in groups together to places their husbands don’t care about … such as shopping trips … or to a musical … or stuff that their men just don’t care about, and they’re gone a night or two. i know men who leave the day hunting season opens.”
Yes there are exceptions, OK, I’m not talking an absolute blanket rule, but it seems to me that good marriages are the kind where the couple does not like spending time apart. My folks are celebrating 50 years of marriage tomorrow. To my knowledge, they have not spent more than a few nights apart in that 50 years. (I do remember my Dad being gone for several days to donate bone marrow for a relative with leukemia.) They simply believed it was in the best interest of their marriage and family to do everything together.
Farmer Tom – i do see your point, and i’m more like what you’ve described. i don’t like to be without my husband. however, i do recognize there are personalities different from mine – and that means marriage personalities different from ours. i know many very good and healthy and thriving marriages where either the husband or wife takes a man-vacation or girls-vacation each year, or occasionally. my ‘adopted mom’s’ husband goes on a hunting trip every year with friends and sons, without women, and they have a wonderful time. they also have a fabulous, long-lasting marriage (i forget how many years now, probably around 25 or so – her first husband died of cancer). i have another friend who spent a weekend out of town with a friend to see a concert her husband didn’t want to go to, and they have a great marriage. i know another woman who goes to women’s retreats several times a year helping in the kitchen, without her husband, and they have a great marriage.
so while my husband and i, in our individual personalities and in our marriage personality, do not have any desire to be apart or to go on man-vacations or girl-vacations, i do accept that there are other personalities different from mine and ours.
however, married people who desire to go on exotic vacations without their spouses and ‘have fun’ and ‘be sexy’ and ‘attract attention,’ whether they plan to act on it or not … that’s a whole different ballgame.
just saw an ad in a magazine for mississippi gulf coast. it pictures two women at a casino dressed in formal attire, one clearly wearing a wedding ring/band set. the ad says:
TRIP REPORT: Kiki & Bev
DATE OF VISIT: Mardi Gras
REASON FOR VISIT: Relax, Party and Escape the Daily Grind
ACTIVITIES: Enjoying Champagne Brunch, Shopping All Day, Relaxing at the Spa, A Little Flirting, Loving the Nightlife, Playing Slots
DISCOVERY: Kiki Got Lucky (Again)!
this is definitely the kind of vacation a Christian married woman has no business going on … “a little flirting” … “loving the nightlife” … those things need to be with her husband
Gee…I wonder who the target market is for that ad!
I grew up in the Caribbean, and unfortunately, this really is a thing. I read a couple academic articles on the subject a while back, an I’ll see if I can dig them up as more reliable sources.
Christine: I don’t doubt it.
That kind of thing often goes on under the radar–it doesn’t get as much mention as men playing around–and, when it does, it gets sympathetic treatment (Eat Pray Love anyone?)
It’s definitely serious enough to warrant mention and admonition.