And no, we are not shaming every single mom here. But Dalrock–picking up on a post from Captain Capitalism–has a very interesting take.
And yes, I agree with Dalrock and Captain Capitalism regarding the general situation. I’ll explain later, as work-related matters are eating my time right now.
there’s a lot to read through following all the links and skimming the comments, so i’ve not read through it all yet. the comments have helped clarify what he’s trying to say.
i think that the difficulty with women understanding what he has written has a lot to do with the fact that men and women are different, and our brains hear and process differently. being that Dalrock presents his material in abrupt ways, it is helpful to read the comments of other men who can flesh it out more so that women can understand better what he’s trying to say.
i don’t prefer to read his writing because he comes across as having an edge of bitterness toward women, and as one commenter stated, it is difficult for women to interpret what he writes as to the general and not the specific. i think, perhaps, if i knew him personally, i would have a better perspective when reading his writing.
i can see how men are drawn to him like a strong magnet.
that being said, i’ve had to mull a lot of this around to be objective. i’m still reading through the links to try to get the bigger picture of what he’s trying to say, so there’s still more to think through.
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“Unless she is a widow, single motherhood is an indication that she has failed profoundly as a mother. This doesn’t mean she isn’t trying desperately to overcome this, and there are some exceptions, but to claim that failing to create a stable home for her children is proof that a woman is a “great mom” is ludicrous on its face.”
as a woman, and one who was a single mom for four years, this comes across as very offensive and makes me initially reactive and defensive.
i think, first, my perception reading is that i ‘hear’ him say that single motherhood is the only way a woman fails profoundly as a mother, and that if a woman stays married at all costs, then that, by default, makes her profoundly successful as a mother. i don’t think this is what he’s saying, but it’s what i hear.
“there are some exceptions” is tucked away in there after the ‘damage is done,’ so to speak, so it comes across as an after-thought. after skimming through the comments on one of the links, it seems that Dalrock has more realistic compassion that he presents.
this is one of the things i’ve had to mull over to find objectivity so as not to react personally.
i picture a block graph in my head. in the rows down are the situations. The rows across: How culture perceives a Man in that situation. How culture perceives a woman in that situation. The next two would be flipped – How culture perceives a woman in that situation but related to a man. How culture perceives a man in that situation but related to a woman. The next two would be objective truth.
first situation … divorced with kids.
culture perceives: Man – He chose to marry her. Too bad. His fault.
culture perceives: Woman – He turned out to be a jerk. His fault.
flipped: Man – She turned out to be a jerk. Her fault.
flipped: Woman – She chose to marry him. Too bad. Her fault.
truth: Man – my choice.
truth: Woman – my choice.
the truth is where it gets hard. it’s based on facts that may or may not be known to the general public, which is why there are exceptions.
but i think what the men are saying is that, if a woman gets a ‘get out of jail free card,’ the man should, too. in general, in our culture, when women get to dis men and blame the bad on men, men should be able to do the same with women. or, if men have to man-up and take responsibility, then women need to grow up and take responsibility, too.
I think that’s a lot of the sentiment coming from the manosphere.
Personally, my take is that Dalrock is aiming at (a) those single moms who have spent their best fertile years riding the carousel and now want to “settle down” and unload their baggage on a good man whom they would never have considered in their youth; and (b) those “single moms” who are divorced–who provide nebulous claims of “abuse”–who get a pass in the Church.
He’s not aiming at folks like yourself or others who got the shaft, nor is he aiming at those who are widowed.
Dalrock is generally a Christian-friendly blogger with whom I have had some decent interactions on other sites.
i know that you and other men i respect have respect for him, so i am working to objectively understand what he’s saying.
i agree – women who do those things are terrible. and i know some. i don’t run in those circles, but as a woman, i know some. there is one woman who made such terrible choices as a mother that i un-friended her on fb because of those choices. i think she’s the only one i’ve ever un-friended on fb. but her blatant, selfish, self-serving choices abandoning her kids turned my stomach.
At the end of the day, it’s those types who are driving the skepticism.
What Dalrock–and Captain Capitalism–are pointing out is that, based on the best numbers available, the “single mother” dilemma is largely the result of women riding the Alpha carousel, as it is illustrative of the point that many in the manosphere have been making: a smaller proportion of men are having a disproportionate amount of the sex.
That feeds the cynicism in that much of society–including the Church–is browbeating the men to “man up” and marry these single moms.
Folks like Dalrock and Captain Capitalism are providing pushback to that mantra, demanding that women “woman up” or–as I would say–“put on their big girl panties”, and quit playing the game of “heads I win, tails you lose.”
In the Church, I’ve seen some of the dynamic in singles circles. You’ll get a twentysomething “single mom” who has two kids, or the “Biblically divorced” mom in her early 30s, who “had the marriage from hell.” They often blame their problems on the men, but rarely do you ever hear them take responsibility for their own choices.
And while I would accept that a few of them probably had husbands like your first husband, I must confess my skepticism in that I often find their answers turning nebulous when they are asked about their own choices.
I wouldn’t say that such women aren’t marriageable–it’s not like only perfect people, which none of us are anyway, can marry–but rather that it is hardly any slight against the manhood of the man who opts to pass on such women.
As I have said from these pages: we all have to decide what risks we are willing to take, and each of us must resolve, between ourselves and God, whether our expectations and desires and risk aversions are reasonable.
“but rather that it is hardly any slight against the manhood of the man who opts to pass on such women. ”
absolutely. no one should be forced to marry another … and men should not be forced to marry women to ‘help them’ out of their dire situation.
i do accept my imperfection and my choice to marry my first husband. i do not believe my mistakes were marriage-level-mistakes because i have openly shared them with a male counselor and with my new husband … and both have assured me that my imperfections and mistakes did not warrant his behavior. at one point, when i shared w/my ex that i understood how certain behavior of mine could make a man want to do certain things, and asked for his forgiveness, he took that as total responsibility for whether his zipper was up or down with other women and has blamed me for everything he did and taken absolutely no responsibility of his own. sadly, this has cost him dearly in ways not proper to share publicly.
also, i have never asserted that divorce is BEST for our kids. i have always said divorce is hell. those who have come back with, “but isn’t it better than what it was,” don’t get it. living without abuse is better, but it is not better to live in a broken family.
The problem is that you were not representative of the typical “Single Mom” that is out there.
The folks like Dalrock are playing the percentages. Game is a rational, cynical take on male-female relations.
It will piss you off–heck, it pisses me off, and I’m a guy–but the person who ignores the dynamics (male or female) does so at one’s peril.
That is because, while feminism promised women the allure of consequence-free sex, Game gives the mother of all pushbacks: there is no such thing as consequence-free sex.
The downside to Game: from a secular standpoint, it appeals to the lowest common denominator of both sexes. It gives license to the Alpha males to say to hell with marriage, screw all they want, and disavow consequences. It encourages the Beta males to throw all civility and decency to the wind, swallow the red pill and join the Alphas in the screwfest. It tells the women, “You want a good lay, well come and get it. Enjoy the ride.” Trouble is, the carousel ride ends after a few minutes.
End-result: no one wins.
this is why i value and appreciate your pov. you can state the percentages, state the concern, state the warning, yet give it all in perspective.
to me, though i do not read them often, when i do, they come off leaning negative and accusatory – not that it isn’t warranted in some, if not even many, cases … but they do not provide the balance you do. in being that way, imho, they attract those who feed off that and it can escalate to the place where balance and reality are not addressed. which is another thing i value and appreciate about you, as you and Mrs. L well know – you are able to be objective and present both sides of the coin and not allow it to get into a mud-slinging contest.
i think their writings are much easier for men to read.
yes, i do accept, humbly and sadly, that i was not the typical single mom.