Watered Down Teaching

My Aspie-Girl just got back from a week at church camp. She went with the church she attended with her Daddy and has grown up going to church camp with these kids. It was their last year as seniors, so it was a BIG deal for her to be there and to stay for the whole week.

The down side – she said all the teaching was very elementary and watered down and hugely disappointing.

And I’m thinking in my head as she’s sharing this with me … my daughter, whose severe dyslexia prevents her from reading much so she listens to audio Bibles … who hasn’t gone to church regularly in years … found the teaching to be elementary and ineffective.

We cannot depend on church to teach our children about God. We have to do it in the home. Talking and teaching about God, the Bible, and praying are an integral and normal part of our lives. It’s how life is in our home; how it’s always been. If this had not been our norm, she would have a very weak foundation, indeed.

It’s pathetic how watered down this teaching was to youth.

31 thoughts on “Watered Down Teaching

  1. While I’m sad to hear about the watered down teaching, I’m grateful that your daughter recognized it was watered down. Ame, that’s a testament to the job you’ve done.

    Your youngest is a senior? How fast time flies. It seems like she was in elementary school only yesterday.

    • thank you … by the grace of God 🙂

      – – –

      i know! it’s surreal. since i’m homeschooling her and we could change up the pace, she won’t officially graduate for another year, but her peer group graduated this year.

      my Oldest is 20, and my Youngest is 18. some days i *feel* that old, but it’s still hard to *think* of myself as that old! lol!

      • Which reminds me… you may be familiar with KM and MM, the couple whom both Amir and I have occasionally mentioned in posts and comments. I actually met Amir through KM… he’s known her for well over 20 years, and I’ve known her for almost 30. The older of their two daughters is little more than a month away from going off to college.

        • gosh, Cubbie. time becomes so surreal the older i get! 20 and 30 years passing? and in some places in my mind i still think i’m 20 … others i think i’m 100! and then there’s my body which plays all kinds of tricks on me. ugh 😉

  2. God give us back us back the fine wine of the gospel. Not the watered down vinegar of current preaching. Feel good nonsense far beneath the glory and majesty of our God.

    ”But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”

    • yes. yes.

      and the idea that anyone can’t understand the bible, as it’s written, shows how little people understand about God, the Holy Spirit, and the utter simplicity concurrent with the complexity of scriptures.

      But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

  3. This is what bothers me about churches: they tend to treat youth ministry like elementary school. They should be getting deep into Scripture, challenging them, getting them ready for the full-court press that is Adulthood.

    Instead, it’s all coffee and doughnuts and never-ending feelgoodz. If anyone asks a hard question, the youth minister is often clueless and gives a pat answer. Then, when the teens actually get to college and start seeing the real world, they ditch Christianity–or what they THINK Christianity is–and join the ranks of #Exvangelicals.

    • yes, and it’s so frustrating.

      i know that this kind of teaching began permeating women with the advent of women’s ministry. no longer was it okay or permissible to simply teach from the bible … now, they expected you to use a book written by a woman as a guide to teaching ‘bible study.’

      seems the more women get involved in church leadership, the more watered down it gets. they all have an opinion, and they all want to be heard. lots and lots of money being made out there by women who’d rather read about what the bible says and quote another woman than to read what the bible actually says and quote God.

      last time i started researching churches in the area, i found some that sounded worth trying … till i found how many women in leadership roles they had. i.just.cannot.go.there. are there *sometimes* roles for women in church? perhaps. but always under strong supervision of men, and women do not do strong men above them anymore. or strong supervision. because they each have a direct line to ‘the Lord’ who tells them what they need to do, and a man is not the Lord.’ sounds really good, but distorts scripture.

      and now we have women dominated and/or women manipulated leadership in churches. it’s like a backdoor lethal virus that has spread so subtly and expertly that it was hailed as truth and the way when all along it was nothing but poison. never discount the power and intelligence of satan.

      • That’s the biggest problem I have with women in leadership: even the “conservative” ones I’ve known tend to get watered-down over time and gravitate toward a theology that is high on fluff and feelgoodz but not so much on substance.

        A friend of mine–a doctor who has done a lot of Precept and related studies over the years and was once a fan of Beth Moore–observed how she has gone soft over the years. And while, in her letter Moore lamented not being taken seriously by established male theologians when she is around them–we both agreed that Moore has actually hurt her credibility by promoting the fluff and feelgoodz.

        (My theory: LifeWay has been pushing her in that direction, as that tends to sell.)

        • i’m sure lifeway has a role in all this, but she makes her own choices. if i remember correctly, both her daughters sons in law work for her ministry? so her ‘ministry’ is supporting three families. that’s a lot of moolah. moolah itself is a great motivation.

          but for women … the praise of other women is HUGE. we are GREATLY motivated and manipulated by other women. the only thing i can think of that might help men understand this is to equate it with a man’s desire/need for sex and the power that has over him. women have a great need for affirmation from other women – it has a huge power over us. and the crowd of women notoriously encourages and leans toward satisfying themselves and their own desires, shamelessly demeans men,and always determines that woman knows what’s best over everyone. they are without fail emotionally driven. it takes uncanny, supernatural strength, of which no woman possesses on her own, to overcome such a powerful force. equate it to plopping a viral, healthy, 20 year old man into an endless environment where he’s surrounded only by beach babes who cater to his every whim and expect him not to have sex with any of them.

          what men need to understand is that women are brilliantly manipulative, and every time she opens her mouth, a caution light should start blinking. i’m not saying everything a woman says is wrong. i am saying a man should filter everything a woman says. and that goes back to the very beginning … where Adam was cursed because he listened to Eve AND ate. it’s not that he listened to her alone, it’s that he listened to her and was persuaded by her.

          essentially … what this boils down to is that women cannot be trusted at face value and everything they do and say should be filtered and evaluated. hence why God placed man over woman to rule over her in the curse to woman which is also a command to men. rule over her. do not allow her to rule over you.

          • No question…at the end of the day, she chooses to do what she does. If she didn’t like LifeWay, she could tell them to go pound sand and go work for Kay Arthur at Precept.

            But she became part of the fluff game and has destroyed her credibility.

        • and … in that light … it shows that her husband does not rule over her, and she does not submit to him … place herself in a position beneath him … and he does not demand that she do so.

          that, alone, means her credibility is lost.

          • and/or … she became so powerful and strong willed that he stopped fighting her, wasn’t worth it anymore b/c she was gonna do what she wanted anyway.

            however it is, i doubt it’s good.

          • the will of God for a wife is that she honors, submits to, respects, and obeys her husband … including placing herself below him in all things … including and especially ‘ministry.’ if her ‘ministry’ becomes bigger than him, then she should walk away. imho, she shouldn’t get that far to begin with, but that’s a whole different can o’ worms.

  4. i find it interesting (tragic) that women/woman are the cause of the fall of man … and of the fall of women. and yet, we’ve allowed a culture that elevates and pedastalizes women, and the church is buying it hook, line and sinker. it shouldn’t be such a surprise b/c the bible tells us this will be so, but it’s still shocking. unbelievers are going to behave as unbelievers. i know there is nothing new under the sun, but these are perilous times. holding onto Truth seems like clinging to a short 2×4 in perilous seas after your ship has sunk.

    • Women aren’t the cause of the fall of Man; men and women are. Eve’s choice to eat of the fruit was hers and hers alone. That alone would not have caused The Fall on a grand scale, as, had she been the only consumer of the fruit, Adam would still have been otherwise without sin.

      But when Adam, who was with her, also chose to eat of the fruit, THAT sealed the deal, as–once he did that–all of humanity was now hosed. At that point, both had sinned in doing exactly what God warned them not to do.

      • i knew i wasn’t wording that well, and that you’d fix it/correct me 🙂

        yes, Adam listened AND ate – his choice. her influence; his choice.

        and all through the bible great men succumb to the negative influence of women … hence proverbs. and the warning to all men to listen but with great discernment to women, including and especially their wives.

        is there any place in the bible where a man is the one who has a negative influence directly on a woman causing her to sin?

          • i’d thought that was more mutual … that Bathsheba knew what she was doing when she seductively bathed in eye-sight of the king?

          • There’s nothing in the Biblical text implicating Bathsheba or assigning any fault to her. In fact, the text (II Samuel 11) states

            (a) David was not doing his job (fighting wars like Kings did)

            (b) Bathsheba was bathing in the evening, so that would not be indicative of someone trying to catch David’s eye. If she had that kind of objective, then it would have made more sense for her to do that during the day;

            (c) her bathing was ceremonial in nature: “Now she was purifying herself from her monthly uncleanness.”

            (d) David sent his envoys to “get her”. Let’s just say that when a King summons you, your two choices are “yes” and “yes”.

            We can sit here and argue whether she could have refused, but just remember: he’s not a President; he’s a King.

            The Biblical text does not put any fault on her; it puts 100% of the fault on him. Any attempt to exegete that another way is short of the glory.

          • I say that because I’ve heard–more freaking times than I want to count–PASTORS (who should know better) using the text to blame Bathsheba. I even heard a teacher at a BSF study–usually those are exceptionally solid–take that angle.

            Nope. Nope. Nope.

          • you’re right. thank you for straightening that out for me. i can’t remember where i heard differently, but i hadn’t gone back and researched it; my bad.

            i’m not really happy about how David responded to Tamar being raped, either 🙁

          • That’s what’s interesting: Absalom, of all people, showed more proper rage than David did. As to why David took no serious action against Amnon, perhaps it was a case of him just shaking his head and accepting that scandal as a consequence of his own sin.

            The problem, though, is that David–in committing adultery and murder–lost a lot of his moral authority, even in his own household.

            If he confronted Amnon for his rape of Tamar, he likely could have thrown it in David’s face: “you’re no better than I am!” And confronting Absalom for killing Amnon? “Hey…at least I had a GOOD REASON to kill him: you killed a good man; I killed a rapist!”

          • ”The problem, though, is that David–in committing adultery and murder–lost a lot of his moral authority, even in his own household.

            If he confronted Amnon for his rape of Tamar, he likely could have thrown it in David’s face: “you’re no better than I am!” And confronting Absalom for killing Amnon? “Hey…at least I had a GOOD REASON to kill him: you killed a good man; I killed a rapist!”

            All too human

            But then even if such a thing is to were to happen he would have to do it. I know its easier said than done. But he could have said something to the effect of acknowledging his own sin like: “That is true and I do not claim perfection or goodness therefore do not imitate my sin and mistakes that I do my best to repent of”

            But nonetheless is still willing to point out sin as it is regardless for their good and for his own good.

          • No question about it. It was still his responsibility to do the right thing as he was not just the King but also the head of a household. While his moral gravitas was definitely compromised, he should have confronted Amnon–perhaps even had him put to death for rape or at least exiled him.

            After Absalom killed him, David should have confronted Absalom about that immediately. That would have been a golden opportunity to admonish and rein Absalom in regarding his sense of justice and tempering that with the call to embrace holiness and purity of heart.

            Instead, David was a no-show and we know what happened after that.

    • But yes, I otherwise agree that our Church, in elevating and pedestaling women–particularly the popular evangelical ones–is setting the Christian world up for disaster.

      • I’ll amend my comment: that the Church, pedestaling ministers and other popular teachers–some of whom are women–is setting the larger Body up for disaster.

        It’s not just the pedestaling of women; it’s the general celebrity worship culture.

        It’s long past time we burned that culture at the stake.

      • I think this root of female pedestalization come from this:

        http://podles.org/files/Church-Impotent/ChurchImpotent_Chapter6.pdf

        http://podles.org/files/Church-Impotent/ChurchImpotent_Chapter7.pdf

        We need to dump bridal mysticism. I also think this is the root cause of the effeminization of men in the church.

        That in order to be truly Christian. Men must become like women:

        Masculinity in this view is an obstacle to union with God. The logical consequence is that Christian men must renounce their masculinity. A
        modern Dominican, Brother Antoninus, wrote:

        ”Annul in me my manhood, Lord, and make
        Me women-sexed and weak,
        If by that total transformation
        I might know Thee more.
        What is the worth of my own sex
        That the bold possessive instinct
        Should but shoulder Thee aside?
        What uselessness is housed in my loins,
        To drive, drive, the rampant pride of life,
        When what is needful is hushed acquiescence?
        “The soul is feminine to God.”

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